Review Over complicated tackle? Or must have tech?

[Kenny84]

Hey all,

As some of you will know I’ve only been fishing “properly” for a couple of years and I’ve been enjoying learning how to tie and use different rigs, this year I’ve been toying with some of the more technical styles…. I basically never use anything more complicated than flappers and pulley rigs or variations of them.

I’ve had a couple of failures on the breakaway pulley beads (the black ones pictured) has anyone else experienced this? Just splitting in half along the seam. I’ve just bought some Gemini one (pictured blue) anyone use them?

Obviously while I was ordering a those I might as well get some other space age looking things while I’m at it.

So has anyone used any of the bits pictures and have a review of them before I head out with just a rig wallet full of springs and clips destined for a woeful time of tangles and tantrums!?

New parts pictured are:

Varivas pennel hooks with the 45degree eye.
Trident up and over clips with springs.
Gemini Pulley bead.
Gemini weight (I’ve used it once and noticed the single legs keep twisting and need prying back 9/10)

Also while I’m picking your brains….

I’m still in the hunt for my first ray and have been using either a bagnal bar rig or a pulley rig…(keen to try up/over too)

I’ve heard that rays can sometimes give false bite indication/ trip the lead while they are settling in on the bait due to their hopefully massive wing span. So it’s best to fish a long snood length away from the weight.

How long is too long for a pulley rig? Or up/over? Probably over thinking things as usual but any input appreciated as always!

Every days a school day.

 

[Tournamag]

Hey all,

As some of you will know I’ve only been fishing “properly” for a couple of years and I’ve been enjoying learning how to tie and use different rigs, this year I’ve been toying with some of the more technical styles…. I basically never use anything more complicated than flappers and pulley rigs or variations of them.

I’ve had a couple of failures on the breakaway pulley beads (the black ones pictured) has anyone else experienced this? Just splitting in half along the seam. I’ve just bought some Gemini one (pictured blue) anyone use them?

Obviously while I was ordering a those I might as well get some other space age looking things while I’m at it.

So has anyone used any of the bits pictures and have a review of them before I head out with just a rig wallet full of springs and clips destined for a woeful time of tangles and tantrums!?

New parts pictured are:

Varivas pennel hooks with the 45degree eye.
Trident up and over clips with springs.
Gemini Pulley bead.
Gemini weight (I’ve used it once and noticed the single legs keep twisting and need prying back 9/10)

Also while I’m picking your brains….

I’m still in the hunt for my first ray and have been using either a bagnal bar rig or a pulley rig…(keen to try up/over too)

I’ve heard that rays can sometimes give false bit indication/ trip the lead while they are settling in in the bait due to their hopefully massive wing span. So it’s best to fish a long snood length away from the weight.

How long is too long for a pulley rig? Or up/over? Probably over thinking things as usual but any input appreciated as always!

Every days a school day.

Those black beads are shite apart from twisting and flapping around when casting as lines stuck out each side like legs on a fat arsed woman on an M'cycle they also break plus angle of line weakens it.
Ive those Gemini ones which use at bottom for running ledger types.

I use the Trident ones for pulleys as the line crossing through keeps it streamlined casting and provides resistance to a fish taking line unlike many others like plain swivels so more chance of a hook up which is the number one bugbear with pulleys of line sliding through and not hooking fish on a bite.

Trident up n over beads work ok just make sure have enough tension on snood and if using heavier line you can open slot up a bit with a file etc so sits in deeper.

Gemini leads hold bottom great and can get various heads and wires as they do a beach one that has straight wires compared to ones you have there that have bends out and up plus they have an 'uptide' which is longer wires.
Just nip end and first bend together to increase holding tension,
They also do short and long inserts to place head and wires further away from lead for more holding(More pier/Boaty)

Pennel rigs more using likes of an octopus/Chinu hook for top one and i don't use tubes/wires/etc just wrap line round shank a few times

 

[Trampster]

Nice one Kenny!
Pulley beads, I've got allsorts but don't use them a lot - Trident probably my favourite.

Trident SRT springs and clips work well - a bit fiddly at times to get the line in place & under tension, but great with a 4ft rig body as it gives the option of an 8ft trace (ish!)

Pennel hooks - rarely use Pennel rigs but I've got Circle hooks for that - the eye on mine is cranked the opposite way so that the line runs down the rear of the hook shank. Usually make the rig with a bit of sleeving over the shank.

Can't be doing with these posh grip leads - last lot I bought were just over £10 for 10 x 4oz. Never go over 4oz with my Continental rods.

4oz x10 Beach Bomb Distance Gripper Fishing Weights heavy duty wires | eBay

4oz Beach Bomb Distance Gripper Fishing Weights heavy duty wires.

www.ebay.co.uk

Billy Fishing on Youtube did a video about making grip leads from old weights by drilling 2 holes at right angles, and using 3mm strimmer cord pinned in with a tap from a centre punch. I've got quite a few old leads about, but need to get my drill vice back before I try it.

Tight lines!

 

[Kenny84]

Thanks gents, some great advice there! I’m going to give the pulley and up/over rigs a try this weekend, hopefully at southbourne on the hunt for a ray (Again!)

I’ve promised to teach the mrs how to fish! Could be a disaster! Blind leading the blind

 

[Shirleycodlin]

Thanks gents, some great advice there! I’m going to give the pulley and up/over rigs a try this weekend, hopefully at southbourne on the hunt for a ray (Again!)

I’ve promised to teach the mrs how to fish! Could be a disaster! Blind leading the blind

Don't do it.
You will never get any peace and quiet.
Plus you will constantly be out fished

 

[Tournamag]

Thanks gents, some great advice there! I’m going to give the pulley and up/over rigs a try this weekend, hopefully at southbourne on the hunt for a ray (Again!)

I’ve promised to teach the mrs how to fish! Could be a disaster! Blind leading the blind

Might see you there.

 

[Kenny84]

Might see you there.

will probably be Saturday by the zigzag slope bit…… you’ll probably hear the arguing before you see us

 

[Si-fly]

Pop in to Tom Bagnal, and grab some of his rigs (tell him what your after and where)...he often fishes southbourne, and also has a few videos on YouTube fishing there for rays etc.
You can then copy them with similar components.

 

[wingnut55]

Why use Pulley rigs, they are predominantly rough ground rigs, not much off that in this area. I mostly use up n overs, flappers and clipped downs, and a bog standard sliding trace.

Ian.

 

[Mr Fish]

I try and keep it very simple, my pulleys are made with swivels and ordinary beads.

I would use pulley beads but what I do now works okay, so…

Springs are something I’ve never used.

I do use up n overs but tbh despite the negativity about pulleys, I’ve caught far more ray on pulleys than up n overs.
I couldn’t even tell you how many.
My PB small eyed of 11lb 4 came on a very short pulley that was aimed at cod, not ray, on a sometimes snaggy mark.
It wasn’t even scientific tbh. Rigs were sparse and I threw that one on while I got sorted out, intending to make something longer.
Can’t have been more than 8-10 inches long.

That’s not saying pulleys are better for rays, I don’t think they are, but they don’t put them off either, imo.
Consequently I tend to make a lot as they’re a handy multi purpose rig for many marks, even though on clean ground there’s no real reason to use them as there’s no snags.
But they are quick and easy to make, and they still catch.

So yes, I’ve caught more ray on pulleys because I use pulleys more, but I really don’t think the fish are fussy.

Most of my surf beach ray sessions involve a mix of pulleys and up n overs (depending on what I’ve had time to make and what’s to hand), so with two spare baited traces ready to go, I’m usually fishing one of each.
There’s no method to it - it’s just whatever is next on the tripod ready to go.
What I’ve found in those situations is neither seems to have any particular edge over the other in terms of numbers of fish.

But to finish the waffle (!) in summary just use what components you’re happy with and what works for you. Trident is well recommended by most on here it seems.
I’ve never felt the need for extra gizmos and components if what I’m doing is working, but that’s not to say I’m right or what I do is the best way, it’s just my way.

And a lot of anglers like the precision and technical side of rig making - I couldn’t give a flying feck and usually throw three or four together half hour before I go out the door.
I don’t buy pre made because it’s cheaper to make your own, plus I trust the components and line I use after years of trial and error.
There are some good rig makers out there though, I just don’t feel it’s something I need to explore.

Sorry, more waffle lol.

 

[Kenny84]

I try and keep it very simple, my pulleys are made with swivels and ordinary beads.

I would use pulley beads but what I do now works okay, so…

Springs are something I’ve never used.

I do use up n overs but tbh despite the negativity about pulleys, I’ve caught far more ray on pulleys than up n overs.
I couldn’t even tell you how many.
My PB small eyed of 11lb 4 came on a very short pulley that was aimed at cod, not ray, on a sometimes snaggy mark.
It wasn’t even scientific tbh. Rigs were sparse and I threw that one on while I got sorted out, intending to make something longer.
Can’t have been more than 8-10 inches long.

That’s not saying pulleys are better for rays, I don’t think they are, but they don’t put them off either, imo.
Consequently I tend to make a lot as they’re a handy multi purpose rig for many marks, even though on clean ground there’s no real reason to use them as there’s no snags.
But they are quick and easy to make, and they still catch.

So yes, I’ve caught more ray on pulleys because I use pulleys more, but I really don’t think the fish are fussy.

Most of my surf beach ray sessions involve a mix of pulleys and up n overs (depending on what I’ve had time to make and what’s to hand), so with two spare baited traces ready to go, I’m usually fishing one of each.
There’s no method to it - it’s just whatever is next on the tripod ready to go.
What I’ve found in those situations is neither seems to have any particular edge over the other in terms of numbers of fish.

But to finish the waffle (!) in summary just use what components you’re happy with and what works for you. Trident is well recommended by most on here it seems.
I’ve never felt the need for extra gizmos and components if what I’m doing is working, but that’s not to say I’m right or what I do is the best way, it’s just my way.

And a lot of anglers like the precision and technical side of rig making - I couldn’t give a flying feck and usually throw three or four together half hour before I go out the door.
I don’t buy pre made because it’s cheaper to make your own, plus I trust the components and line I use after years of trial and error.
There are some good rig makers out there though, I just don’t feel it’s something I need to explore.

Sorry, more waffle lol.

11lb small eyed would be nice ! Yes the pulley rigs are just a good easy rig to make at the end of the day as long as the hook is sharp and the bait is well presented on it there’s the chance of catching. Unfortunately I do love a bit of tech! So It’s definitely in my nature to fiddle and change things up!

 

[Kenny84]

Pop in to Tom Bagnal, and grab some of his rigs (tell him what your after and where)...he often fishes southbourne, and also has a few videos on YouTube fishing there for rays etc.
You can then copy them with similar components.

I’ll have a look on YouTube to see if I can find him! Thanks.

 

[Kenny84]

Why use Pulley rigs, they are predominantly rough ground rigs, not much off that in this area. I mostly use up n overs, flappers and clipped downs, and a bog standard sliding trace.

Ian.

I hardly ever fish rough ground but I just use them for their ease of clipping down and to fish the bait a good distance from the lead but I’ll be giving the up and over a go this weekend, will report back with how I get on.

 

[Trampster]

Mark Williams on Youtube has done a few good rig making videos. Worth a watch if he's done a rig you're interested in.

https://www.youtube.com/@seaangling/playlists

 

[Valleyboy]

For catching, your location, time, bait and conditions are far more important than your terminal tackle. If your not catching rays now swapping the type of bead you use will not help

 

[Kenny84]

For catching, your location, time, bait and conditions are far more important than your terminal tackle. If your not catching rays now swapping the type of bead you use will not help

Yep agreed. I’m only changing the bead because the previous type failed. Although I spoke to a mate of a mate who knows a Ray and apparently he said they do actually prefer the Gemini type so fingers crossed

 

[Mr Fish]

11lb small eyed would be nice ! Yes the pulley rigs are just a good easy rig to make at the end of the day as long as the hook is sharp and the bait is well presented on it there’s the chance of catching. Unfortunately I do love a bit of tech! So It’s definitely in my nature to fiddle and change things up!

And that’s fine, if that’s what you like. It’s not my cup of tea at all and over the years I’ve settled on what works for me, is relatively quick and easy, with components etc I’ve come to trust.
All I would say is don’t get too hung up on overthinking it and chopping and changing constantly.
As @Valleyboy has just said, location, time, bait and conditions are more important than your end gear.

I’ve found bait can be quite area specific. For example, in the Bristol Channel I wouldn’t even take sandeel for thornbacks, it just doesn’t work. Not for me anyway.

Are you fishing day or night, or both? It depends on the mark, but do you target specific tide states, ie around low or the flood, two hours either side of high? Etc etc.

Not saying you do, but the error a lot of newcomers make is they only fish at times that suit them, ie plonk their gear down at 10am on a Saturday in broad daylight, fish until 4 then go home.
That might suit them but if it’s an ebbing tide, bright sunlight and the sea is full of windsurfers, they might as well sit there and make sandcastles instead.
Obviously we can’t all drop everything and go at the perfect time, it’s a compromise sometimes, but eventually you build up a bank of marks in your head to suit different scenarios.
Sometimes if everything is against it I’ll cancel a session and save myself for when circumstances are more favourable, rather than go when I know I’m unlikely to catch.

OT a bit but just to expand on the point that what rig components you use is quite a minor player in the scheme of things.

 

[Kenny84]

And that’s fine, if that’s what you like. It’s not my cup of tea at all and over the years I’ve settled on what works for me, is relatively quick and easy, with components etc I’ve come to trust.
All I would say is don’t get too hung up on overthinking it and chopping and changing constantly.
As @Valleyboy has just said, location, time, bait and conditions are more important than your end gear.

I’ve found bait can be quite area specific. For example, in the Bristol Channel I wouldn’t even take sandeel for thornbacks, it just doesn’t work. Not for me anyway.

Are you fishing day or night, or both? It depends on the mark, but do you target specific tide states, ie around low or the flood, two hours either side of high? Etc etc.

Not saying you do, but the error a lot of newcomers make is they only fish at times that suit them, ie plonk their gear down at 10am on a Saturday in broad daylight, fish until 4 then go home.
That might suit them but if it’s an ebbing tide, bright sunlight and the sea is full of windsurfers, they might as well sit there and make sandcastles instead.
Obviously we can’t all drop everything and go at the perfect time, it’s a compromise sometimes, but eventually you build up a bank of marks in your head to suit different scenarios.
Sometimes if everything is against it I’ll cancel a session and save myself for when circumstances are more favourable, rather than go when I know I’m unlikely to catch.

OT a bit but just to expand on the point that what rig components you use is quite a minor player in the scheme of things.

Yep totally agree with that mate. I do generally plan it around the tides and mainly do night time sessions. Or like in a few weeks I’ll head out day time on the hunt for plaice if the conditions suit.

Is is where the forum is great, I can pick your brains and get some good advice rather than just going out and hoping for the best!

Local knowledge seems to be the most important thing…… unfortunately you can’t buy that online!

Thanks for the advice, it’s appreciated.

 

[Mesmo]

Because of my lack of experience / guidance, I have always worked off the premise of K.I.S.S (we all know what that stands for

And also of the thought that the fish don't know if you have spent a few quid on your kit or "fowsands"

Ulimately and I am happy to be proved wrong, its all about presentation and knowledge of where you are fishing

 

[Mr Fish]

Yep totally agree with that mate. I do generally plan it around the tides and mainly do night time sessions. Or like in a few weeks I’ll head out day time on the hunt for plaice if the conditions suit.

Is is where the forum is great, I can pick your brains and get some good advice rather than just going out and hoping for the best!

Local knowledge seems to be the most important thing…… unfortunately you can’t buy that online!

Thanks for the advice, it’s appreciated.

No worries and tbh from your posts I didn’t think you were one of the ‘four hours on a sunny Saturday afternoon’ brigade!
But it’s surprising how many come on forums asking for advice then eventually reveal they do just that.
Nothing wrong with that at the very beginning of an angling career and nothing wrong with the occasional session just to get out, without expecting to catch much.
But ultimately to be successful we need to be there when the fish are and not when it conveniently suits our lifestyle (talking generally here, I don’t mean you).

As you say, that’s where local knowledge comes in and more often than not it’s building that up for yourself over several trips, for several years, lol.

If you haven’t already, it’s worth joining a local club. Not necessarily to enter competitions though you might come to doing that, but meeting people whose brains you can pick not to mention hopefully arranging a few trips with them.
Forums are great but they’re limited, partly because people don’t always want to share publicly online and partly because we’re scattered all over the place.
If you lived local to me I’d invite you on a trip or two to try and get your ray, but I wouldn’t have a scooby about your area.